One thing I'd add from my own perspective is I think both the strongly pro and anti natalist framings tend to become very utilitarian in a way that I'm just not comfortable with. I don't think the question "Should humans have children?" is best answered by tallying up lifestyle inconveniences or economic benefits.
For me, the bigger issue is the collapse of social structures that used to make child rearing a lot more communal. Modernization has completely atomized us making our inner circles and intergenerational ties substantially smaller than they ever used to be when that was our ancestral safety net.
I'd also disagree that humans have weak reproductive drives. If anything, with the intense consumption of pornography shows the opposite.
For me, the strongest reason to have children; whether that be biologically or through adoption should be due to the fact that parenthood is simply the natural continuation of life, legacy, and community. Without strong family ties or intergenerational bonds, old age can become incredibly isolating as well but I also agree, some people genuinely aren't called to parenthood and so should refrain from doing so.
But for most people, reducing the question to "what if childbirth hurts" or "what if I have less time for myself" reads more like modern anxieties rather than a truly thought our moral reflection. Choosing a good partner, having a supportive community, and being in the right state of life matters far more than hypothetical worst case scenarios.
Thank you. I've always felt terribly guilty about not really wanting kids - I stopped when I started thinking it thru more, which I'm not sure nature wants us to do - and articles like this make me feel marginally less guilty.
I wish everyone luck who wants that, but I do ask them to wherever possible understand they are making a very big decision on behalf of someone else. A cliché around parenting which IS true is a child shouting out 'I didn't ask to be born!'
I think overall you've made a good overview of the different cases, I can't have kids but I have thought about this a great deal. To me 3a is oddly the one that gives me the most pause, it's supposed to be an argument in favor of having kids but to me it's always this looming doubt of being able to make a reasonable decision based on understanding myself because the whole point is that my brain would be changed by the experience and I would become a noticeably different person. This change designed to work in a way that's conducive to being a good parent, but I always worried about it not working well enough on me to reach the threshold of what I'd think a child deserves. There are clearly some number of parents who don't get the same kick out of their kids as others and is that purely their fault for being awful/irresponsible people or do they not get an adequate biological positive feedback loop like others do?
That’s a good question. Definitely there seems to be some variability on how impactful the hormone side is, and IF that happens to be a rather large component of parental happiness, then it would be scary to contemplate having children with the potential for that to be lacking.
I think it's palpable to me because there's family history of depression that I saw have a pretty significant impact on one of my parents and I have pretty persistent melancholia. It's under control enough for me to have a stable if semi-sequestered life, but would a kid change that enough for me to not feel like I'd soft-neglect them? Impossible to know with any degree of confidence.
Your three arguments for parenthood basically can be condensed to the hedonic benefit to the prospective parent.
I think this is a fine argument and shouldn't be underestimated. Most people really would be happier as parents.
Three additional arguments are:
The hedonic benefit to the child. Most people are basically satisfied to be alive. Having a child lets another person experience a basically satisfying life.
A teleological argument from our nature as humans. Humans are machines produced by evolution to survive and reproduce. Some people (like me) might consider it preferable to adapt their actions to the teleological reason for our existence. One doesn't need to accept this, but it's not an obviously absurd thing to want.
Lastly, since personality traits are partly heritable, choosing to pass on your genes increases the degree to which whatever ideals and values you hold will be represented in the future. On the other hand, to the degree you choose not to reproduce, you are letting your particular personality traits and values die out. If you value preserving those things, you should choose to have children.
Considering these points makes the case for children stronger than it would be if one only relied on your arguments.
I think those are true points and solid arguments to make if you’re super philosophically minded- but for me and I believe the vast majority of people they just aren’t relevant. The hedonic arguments dominate.
Very few people make selfless decisions in favor of increasing total utility. Even less care about adapting their choices to match natural processes. Passing on personality traits I could see adding to the point about existential fulfillment (e.g. living on in memory etc) but I really, really don’t think people decide to have children based on the tiny influence in the world!
This is a great piece and very soberly and sanely written. I think you've marshaled the main arguments on both sides effectively without favoritism. I think what you wrote in 3b applies to me: the opportunity cost involved with having children went down as I got older. I spent 10 years living it in up in a big city in my early career, going to over 100 plays, concerts, reading and exercising all day. By the time the pandemic hit and I was 36 or so, I was kind of done with this and looking for a new challenge just like the mentorship challenge of raising kids.
My own pieces on this topic articulate the enjoyment I derived from having kids, and I personally felt no pressure at all to have kids from anyone in my family or from society generally; more so the opposite. I did notice even the last holdouts dropping out as age 40 approached though: one by one, the ring claimed them all.
I'm curious if you have other pieces on this topic, and to know more about your personal situation if you are interested in sharing this much on your Substack: do you already have a partner, where are you in your career, your ambition, etc. But up to you what you want to share. I find this topic very interesting.
This is a great piece!
One thing I'd add from my own perspective is I think both the strongly pro and anti natalist framings tend to become very utilitarian in a way that I'm just not comfortable with. I don't think the question "Should humans have children?" is best answered by tallying up lifestyle inconveniences or economic benefits.
For me, the bigger issue is the collapse of social structures that used to make child rearing a lot more communal. Modernization has completely atomized us making our inner circles and intergenerational ties substantially smaller than they ever used to be when that was our ancestral safety net.
I'd also disagree that humans have weak reproductive drives. If anything, with the intense consumption of pornography shows the opposite.
For me, the strongest reason to have children; whether that be biologically or through adoption should be due to the fact that parenthood is simply the natural continuation of life, legacy, and community. Without strong family ties or intergenerational bonds, old age can become incredibly isolating as well but I also agree, some people genuinely aren't called to parenthood and so should refrain from doing so.
But for most people, reducing the question to "what if childbirth hurts" or "what if I have less time for myself" reads more like modern anxieties rather than a truly thought our moral reflection. Choosing a good partner, having a supportive community, and being in the right state of life matters far more than hypothetical worst case scenarios.
Thank you. I've always felt terribly guilty about not really wanting kids - I stopped when I started thinking it thru more, which I'm not sure nature wants us to do - and articles like this make me feel marginally less guilty.
I wish everyone luck who wants that, but I do ask them to wherever possible understand they are making a very big decision on behalf of someone else. A cliché around parenting which IS true is a child shouting out 'I didn't ask to be born!'
I think overall you've made a good overview of the different cases, I can't have kids but I have thought about this a great deal. To me 3a is oddly the one that gives me the most pause, it's supposed to be an argument in favor of having kids but to me it's always this looming doubt of being able to make a reasonable decision based on understanding myself because the whole point is that my brain would be changed by the experience and I would become a noticeably different person. This change designed to work in a way that's conducive to being a good parent, but I always worried about it not working well enough on me to reach the threshold of what I'd think a child deserves. There are clearly some number of parents who don't get the same kick out of their kids as others and is that purely their fault for being awful/irresponsible people or do they not get an adequate biological positive feedback loop like others do?
That’s a good question. Definitely there seems to be some variability on how impactful the hormone side is, and IF that happens to be a rather large component of parental happiness, then it would be scary to contemplate having children with the potential for that to be lacking.
I think it's palpable to me because there's family history of depression that I saw have a pretty significant impact on one of my parents and I have pretty persistent melancholia. It's under control enough for me to have a stable if semi-sequestered life, but would a kid change that enough for me to not feel like I'd soft-neglect them? Impossible to know with any degree of confidence.
Your three arguments for parenthood basically can be condensed to the hedonic benefit to the prospective parent.
I think this is a fine argument and shouldn't be underestimated. Most people really would be happier as parents.
Three additional arguments are:
The hedonic benefit to the child. Most people are basically satisfied to be alive. Having a child lets another person experience a basically satisfying life.
A teleological argument from our nature as humans. Humans are machines produced by evolution to survive and reproduce. Some people (like me) might consider it preferable to adapt their actions to the teleological reason for our existence. One doesn't need to accept this, but it's not an obviously absurd thing to want.
Lastly, since personality traits are partly heritable, choosing to pass on your genes increases the degree to which whatever ideals and values you hold will be represented in the future. On the other hand, to the degree you choose not to reproduce, you are letting your particular personality traits and values die out. If you value preserving those things, you should choose to have children.
Considering these points makes the case for children stronger than it would be if one only relied on your arguments.
I think those are true points and solid arguments to make if you’re super philosophically minded- but for me and I believe the vast majority of people they just aren’t relevant. The hedonic arguments dominate.
Very few people make selfless decisions in favor of increasing total utility. Even less care about adapting their choices to match natural processes. Passing on personality traits I could see adding to the point about existential fulfillment (e.g. living on in memory etc) but I really, really don’t think people decide to have children based on the tiny influence in the world!
This is a great piece and very soberly and sanely written. I think you've marshaled the main arguments on both sides effectively without favoritism. I think what you wrote in 3b applies to me: the opportunity cost involved with having children went down as I got older. I spent 10 years living it in up in a big city in my early career, going to over 100 plays, concerts, reading and exercising all day. By the time the pandemic hit and I was 36 or so, I was kind of done with this and looking for a new challenge just like the mentorship challenge of raising kids.
My own pieces on this topic articulate the enjoyment I derived from having kids, and I personally felt no pressure at all to have kids from anyone in my family or from society generally; more so the opposite. I did notice even the last holdouts dropping out as age 40 approached though: one by one, the ring claimed them all.
I'm curious if you have other pieces on this topic, and to know more about your personal situation if you are interested in sharing this much on your Substack: do you already have a partner, where are you in your career, your ambition, etc. But up to you what you want to share. I find this topic very interesting.